Wandering in Darkness

CNLP 816 | The Brutal Reality of Pastoring: John Ortberg on Leadership Pain, the Introvert's Ministry Dilemma, and Dealing With the Job You Didn't Sign Up For

The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, 9 July 2026. The book comes up at 1 hr 6 min in.

John Ortberg describes reading this large philosophical work by Eleanor Stump during the painful personal season when he had no audience and no publishing contract. He calls it one of the most amazing and formative books he has ever read, and says he spent time thinking through how he would teach its contents — an exercise he kept entirely private.

Listen to this episode ↗︎